Comments on fitty-two-fawty: 5240 In Review: My Top 20

Kevin said: "Like Shawn said, most albums are put ...

2010-01-15T01:43:08.492-08:00

Kevin said: "Like Shawn said, most albums are put together by whatever songs the particular artist/band has ready at the time with no real thread to tie them together, but that part is what I've always felt was interactive and on the listener to provide."

I think there is more: it's the stage of life the artist is in, in a particular year. The instruments they use, the studio, the band members. An album usually has a vibe.
There are albums with one song made somewhere else, and you can hear it (Born to Run on Springsteen's Born to Run for instance, or Whole Lotta Rosie).

Jeroen

Mike: I mean the 2cd that Shawn hopefully will put...

2010-01-15T01:38:39.459-08:00

Mike: I mean the 2cd that Shawn hopefully will put together of the whole project. Remixed, partly updated, in a new order.

Jeroen

Although I love the ease and volume with which the...

2010-01-14T20:11:52.907-08:00

Although I love the ease and volume with which the single song releases give us new music at a quicker rate, I'm still having a tough time transitioning to that as a listener/consumer.

I've resigned to downloading some new albums vs buying the cd, but I still prefer to buy he 'package' of a real disc with real booklets and detailed liner notes. Having a high quality backup of the music is a nice plus, too. I get that I can download all of that and burn my own disc and print my own artwork and wiki who played on the record, etc., but isn't it just easier to buy it all put together? I am going to miss taking that occasional extra cash and digging through bins and actually buying the stuff in person. I've loved doing that since I bought my first lps in the 70's. Maybe in a few years I won't care, but watching it slip away at a rapid rate is bittersweet.

Like Shawn said, most albums are put together by whatever songs the particular artist/band has ready at the time with no real thread to tie them together, but that part is what I've always felt was interactive and on the listener to provide. I will always think of the keg parties in the woods in high school when I hear anything off of VH's 1984...that becomes the connective tissue of the songs, so to speak. Everyone here has bunches of favorite albums that would make it hard to imagine the individual songs without the others they were released with. No?

The album is dead, long live the album!

I'm still trying to compile a list of 10-20 favorites from 5240, but it is hard. Maybe tomorrow...

word: wizin

What do you mean by "complete collection" Jeroen? ...

2010-01-14T05:02:46.588-08:00

What do you mean by "complete collection" Jeroen?

-Witty

I'm old. Well, I feel old. I'm old in the sense t...

2010-01-13T23:38:34.115-08:00

I'm old.
Well, I feel old.

I'm old in the sense that I don't have an iPod. I'm waiting for volume 4 to appear so I can burn the cd and finally really listen to the last songs properly (that's why I'm not giving any lists yet).

So I'm an album person. I like collections of songs by the same artist. I pick a cd for the mood I'm in. I can't handle radio, I abhor shuffle mode. I (almost) never skip a song on an album. Even the worst songs grow on me in a way: as an anouncement for what is to come (example: Day of Darkness by Deicide).

So I really hope for a complete collection that will highlight the beauty that lies within all of the amazing work that is 5240.

Jeroen

I'm down with albums going digital. Over 50% of t...

2010-01-13T08:29:27.096-08:00

I'm down with albums going digital. Over 50% of the albums I buy these days are in that format. The album art thing is mostly just what you see in the window in iTunes. But I almost always listen to music in album format. About the only time I listen on shuffle is with the kids in the car. I understand that physical media isn't profitable anymore. And I can see why you might not even want to sell your music anymore. That said, I think a collection of songs you can buy or otherwise download with a name and an artist-selected order has some merit. It's still an album to me and has the same benefits I mentioned earlier.

I know that I have friends who are even more album-oriented than me, who have enjoyed your music in the past, but don't follow my suggestions to listen to the 5240 material. I think they would be more apt to check it out if it were distilled to a package of the best of. Of course, folks like us might be dinosaurs. But we're not extinct yet! :-)

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're sayi...

2010-01-13T08:18:49.459-08:00

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, gp91 - there's something like 50 years of cultural history backing you up.

But... fifty years out of all of the history of human music-making is a blip. And I believe it's reaching its end, as the dominant music consumption paradigm.

The fact that consuming singles is much closer to how I actually work myself, means that it doesn't really bother me if that's how music is consumed in the future.

But I grew up with albums, too, and for me to say I don't value all that stuff about them would be me being less than honest.

But, as someone with limited means, I have to go forward with the method that will serve me best artistically, while stil allowing me not to end up in the gutter when I'm a senior citizen.

There's almost no reason to make a "hard-copy" release of 5240 at all. I'm still torn on the issue. I know I want to revisit the ones that got short-shrift in the mixing stage, and I know I want to remaster them all as a big collection (so that the quieter ones are indeed QUIETER). After that, though - even a limited release of say, 250 copies - I guarantee I won't sell out of that, even if I priced it at say, $15.

Great argument gopack91. A 5240 "best of" could m...

2010-01-13T07:49:21.114-08:00

Great argument gopack91. A 5240 "best of" could make for a great promotional tool at the very least. But I think Shawn is probably on the right track, for him, as the artist, as well. Both points of view make sense.

I'm fine with it either way. I know (in theory) what my track listing for a "best of" would be and as I stated earlier in the thread, it would be somewhat surprisingly, though not completely, different from what Shawn thinks it should be.

-Witty

I guess I'm partial to albums because it's a frame...

2010-01-13T07:45:41.104-08:00

I guess I'm partial to albums because it's a frame of reference socially. People rank their favorite albums. They talk about picking up the latest album by someone. They talk about what albums are in their collection, not songs. And time-wise, most people are so busy that they are lucky to have time to listen to much more than 60 mins of music in a row. I like the idea of album art, and the idea of a well crafted song order that creates a great flow. I like saying what album is in my player. Talking in terms of songs seems so short-attention-span, ipod-shuffle.

Again, enjoying the discussion very muchly! I'm p...

2010-01-13T07:39:55.635-08:00

Again, enjoying the discussion very muchly!

I'm pretty down on albums right now, myself. I don't see myself making a new one anytime soon. I'll be making lots of SONGS, but albums?

For me, albums have always been a fairly artificial construct. I've always just collected the pile of tunes I had at any one time and put them out. Sure, I spent time thinking about ordering, and sometimes I came up with some "connective tissue" between songs or something. But when I'm working, it's always about the song. That's it. If it fits well in a collection later, great. But I don't care about that one whit.

5240 is a collection of songs. The only reason we're even talking about "CD's" at all is that a CD is the current dominant delivery medium, and being limited by how much time fits on there, I'd need more than one to put all the 5240 stuff together. But the concept of "CD-as-frame" bugs me. As an artist, *I* want to be the one who decides where the frame begins and ends. That's my JOB as an artist. I don't want that bit imposed on me by a means of delivery. Which is frankly, how all "albums" came to be.

From now on, no one has to have such constraints if they don't WANT to. If they want to make long-form works, they CAN. If they want to release miniatures, they CAN. Artists are free to do whatever they want, and consumers of the art are also free to consume all of it, or just the bits they like. I think that's a good system.

I still disagree. I think a shorter compilation a...

2010-01-13T05:52:31.648-08:00

I still disagree. I think a shorter compilation album would be better. I understand Witty's thoughts on expecting songs to be in a certain order based on the project, but you have to balance that with the # of people who haven't yet heard 5240 and been influenced by that order. Would the many people who haven't yet heard it be turned off if they felt some of the songs weren't as good as the others? There is some excellent material in 5240, and I would hate to not have an "album" that hits it out of the park because of the lesser tracks. Nobody, not even Shawn or the Beatles, could write 52 great songs, one per week, so I'm trying to be objective and not let my loyalty, admiration, and gratitude to Shawn cloud my perspective on all the songs. But I would assert there are 15-20 there that could make a killer album at least as good as Life Like Luster.

"P.S. I have never skipped "You Lads" Me either.....

2010-01-13T05:46:31.290-08:00

"P.S. I have never skipped "You Lads"

Me either... love "You Lads".

"That's why I can't really get behind releasing a single-disc "best of..."

I don't blame you and would support that decision. It would seem a shame to strip out certain songs from a project that was all about the whole in the first place. It wouldn't be the same effort or result as creating a "Greatest Hits" album, songs compiled onto one disc from many years of releasing music.

5240 IS the "best of". It's the best 52 songs in your 40th year".

Some of these songs, obviously, would work fine on their own. Most, however, in my opinion wouldn't, not because they're lacking in anything or can't stand up by themselves. But because they already inhabit a certain place in the whole piece. They belong where they are.

Ever make a mix tape back in the day and play the crap out of it for years? And now, even 20 years later, every time you hear a song from that tape on the radio, you expect to hear the song you recorded after it to come up next?

I can't living to "Heartbreaker" without "Living Loving Maid" to follow. The same is true with "Sometimes Just Makin' Out Can Be Fun (Sometimes)" and "Esther Hurts My Head"... and I don't want to be asked to. Look how different everyone's lists are already. :)

I'm afraid that would happen with a 5240 "best of". I would buy or download or whatever, a compilation if there was one, don't get me wrong. But I bet you I would listen to it the least between it and the 4 volumes that we already have. Why make one more convenient, opinionated "volume" when we already have 4 albums to listen to?

-Witty

I took a road trip over the holidays and had plent...

2010-01-12T20:53:31.557-08:00

I took a road trip over the holidays and had plenty of time in the car to listen to music. The first disc I burned was the 51 available tracks of 5240. Sitting there listening to the project in its entirety is incredibly satisfying.

I'm glad to read your comment where you say "all of the songs really should be considered all together."

While I certainly have my favorites (and a few songs I skip entirely, I still prefer to think of each track as one piece of a compilation. The entirety of the project is far, far greater than the sum of its parts, and the parts are pretty damn good.

Without a doubt, 5240 is my favorite music of 2009.

P.S. I have never skipped "You Lads"

OK, I'm posting again, so I extend my top 4 to a t...

2010-01-12T16:03:35.154-08:00

OK, I'm posting again, so I extend my top 4 to a top 10, now that I've heard 5240 front-to-back.

1. Esther Hurts My Head
2. Lake Water (Hot and Cold)
3. Help is on the Way
4. Sometimes Makin' Out Can Be Fun (Sometimes)
5. Goal Weight
6. Snow Day
7. That Promise I Won't Let Myself Break
8. Elephantine
9. Zeroed Out (could move up with more listens, just getting familiar with it)
10. One Fell Swoop

Hon mention: That Wine Makes My Urns Beer

As you might can tell, I am a sucker for heavier and faster, though there's still a bit of variety here.

Enjoying the discussion, everyone! MW: that was b...

2010-01-12T13:56:37.232-08:00

Enjoying the discussion, everyone!

MW: that was back around the halfway mark, and I've since revised my view of the tune in question. I like it fine, now, especially when considered in context of the whole collection.

And it's something some of you have mentioned, that I had internalized without really being conscious of it: all of the songs really should be considered all together. That's why I can't really get behind releasing a single-disc "best of", even if maybe a lot of people would prefer that (I'm sure plenty would love to skip over "Revenants" or "You Lads" or whatever). That's why God invented playlists, or skip buttons, or what-have-you. ;-)

Excellent overview. I totally agree about Esther. ...

2010-01-12T13:29:28.927-08:00

Excellent overview. I totally agree about Esther. I freaking love that tune, and I'm still blown away when I think of how quickly you turned it out. The lyrics are fantastic. The vocal melody is fantastic. The music is fantastic. The ideas are fantastic. The changes are fantastic. The guitar solo is ultra-fantastic, and the tone of the guitar is to die for!!

It's still the song I play for folks when I tell them about the project.

On a side note, I know that 2010 is young, but I still check in every Monday (at least) to see what is new. It was a very cool way to spend a year, and I thank you for sharing your music with us.

Very, very, cool!!

Ken Ferrari

Shawn... in a previous thread (no idea which one, ...

2010-01-12T13:11:11.100-08:00

Shawn... in a previous thread (no idea which one, back in the summer-ish I guess), you said something along the lines of, "I have a least-favorite song, but will keep it to myself in case it happens to be well-liked by others". Remember?

Is it safe now to reveal which one that is? Just curious.

-Witty

One fell swoop contains my favourite intro riff, h...

2010-01-12T06:47:30.591-08:00

One fell swoop contains my favourite intro riff, hands down. Big ball of fire in the sky made me laugh out loud the most. Twin powers has the best atmosphere, Snow Day rocks the heaviest, and every song that contains those weird yet wonderful vocal harmonies is made awesome by them.

Rich
DM

Wow Shawn, your list is a complete surprise to me....

2010-01-11T06:14:22.195-08:00

Wow Shawn, your list is a complete surprise to me... and yet not, since I realize your connection to each song is completely different from what any of us could really know.

I'll need some more time before I can contribute to the making of a list.

-Witty

Here are my top 4, in order: 1. Lake Water (Hot a...

2010-01-10T14:41:26.689-08:00

Here are my top 4, in order:

1. Lake Water (Hot and Cold)
2. Esther Hurts My Head
3. Help is on the Way
4. Sometimes Makin' Out Can Be Fun (Sometimes)

I could listen to "Lake Water" over and over again 50 times. And there are very few songs that can apply to for me.

Okay, I'm not going to try to rank things, because...

2010-01-10T12:47:19.714-08:00

Okay, I'm not going to try to rank things, because that would be too hard. But if I were to make a single cd out of the 52 songs I've heard from you this year, these, and maybe a few others, would have to be on it:

A Really, Really, Really Bad Idea
Big Ball Of Fire In The Sky
Color Me Corrected
Elephantine
Goal Weight
Help Is On The Way
It Feels Like You Aren't Even Trying
JAS-puh?
Lake Water (Hot And Cold)
Moist
Quaver
Sad
Snow Day
Squandered All My Time
Things Look Bleak
Xanthous
Zeroed Out